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00:00:00:02 - 00:00:32:12

Isaiah

Life is what you make of it. Like, you can't wait for other people to kind of give you things or doors to open and you kind of have to just build it yourself. And in the process of building it yourself, other things will happen. Good things will happen. You will attract that kind of energy and stuff. Like I didn't get into sketch comedy to start a sketch comedy festival and to have all these new friends as an adult and kind of have my world grow and spend my nights laughing with some of the funniest people I've ever met.

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00:00:32:18 - 00:00:46:11

Isaiah

Once I started building that world and leaning into it and committing time to it like the other stuff grew and blossomed and the trees bearing fruit. And now that exist, that that's something that’s the shade of the tree I get to live under.

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00:00:46:13 - 00:01:12:14

Grace

Welcome to Media in the Mix. The only podcast produced and hosted by the School of Communication at American University. Join us as we create a safe space to explore our topics and communication at the intersection of social justice, tech innovation and pop culture. All right, Welcome back to Media in the Mix. I'm your host, Grace Ibrahim. And today we're welcoming Isaiah Headen a double SOC alum to the podcast.

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00:01:12:15 - 00:01:13:15

Grace

Thanks so much for being here.

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00:01:13:20 - 00:01:15:02

Isaiah

Thank you so much, Grace. Appreciate it.

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00:01:15:03 - 00:01:35:13

Grace

Absolutely. So to give you a little background on our guest, Isaiah has built a career in broadcast post-production as a senior creative editor for over a decade, combining his storytelling passion with his technical skills. Isaiah's work includes promos, documentaries, commercials, music videos and short films for clients like GCA, Public Building Service, American Heart Association, PBS, and the World Bank.

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00:01:35:18 - 00:01:54:16

Grace

My sister works at the World thinks that's pretty cool. Notably, he edited documentaries for For the Nation to Nation exhibit at the National Museum of the American Indian and was the lead editor for the Bloomberg 2020 campaign. In his spare time, Isaiah is a photographer and comedy writer, which I'd also love to dive into today. And yeah, let's let's get it started.

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00:01:54:16 - 00:01:55:16

Isaiah

Yep, ready to go.

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00:01:55:20 - 00:02:10:18

Grace

So I'm going to start with some questions that are going to kind of take you down memory lane. If you don't mind. Can you just tell us a little bit of your time at SOC, you're a double alum correct? So undergrad and grad was at SOC. So what made you come back?

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00:02:10:20 - 00:02:31:23

Isaiah

I was lazy. You know, they have that. I don't know. They still have it, but they had the ability to where you could like skip a lot of things by just coming back for a fifth year, right? And I was like, Yeah, I'll just do that. All my friends are here and I don't have to leave. Yeah, So I just applied, got in and just kept going.

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00:02:32:01 - 00:02:39:01

Grace

That’s awesome. And then did you have any like favorite classes or any professors that stuck out in your mind? You still remember? Till this day?

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00:02:39:03 - 00:03:05:03

Isaiah

I think the best class I took was a class by Chris Palmer. Wildlife guy. Documentary Documentarian, kind of a life Coach. I would say that class bonded very well. And not only do we enjoy the class and got to know him, but like, we all got to know each other very well. And I'm still connected to a lot of those people where we've kind of like, helped each other out throughout our careers.

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00:03:05:05 - 00:03:21:21

Isaiah

And it's like a lot of the film classes I took growing up through here, people went off to different things. But for some reason, that class was like you were locked in. Whatever next project, Like even after class ended, we kept working with each other. And I just didn't experienced that in the other class.

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00:03:21:21 - 00:03:39:01

Grace

That's awesome. We always stress on this podcast because, you know, for any prospective students or current students that you like network not only with your professors, but with each other, because you never know, you know, who is going to help you out or how you can get in contact with for a project. So love hearing that and then really kind of diving into it.

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00:03:39:01 - 00:03:49:03

Grace

Were there was there a point at AU that kind of shaped your career aspirations or kind of led you to know like, Oh, this is what I want to be doing right when I graduate?

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00:03:49:05 - 00:04:08:11

Isaiah

So I applied to one school and AU was the one school because I knew I wanted to go and the direction of film video. And at the time AU was the only school in the area that had any kind of film per program. It was all documentary work. So like, I didn't really understand that.

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00:04:08:12 - 00:04:27:13

Isaiah

Or broadcast journalism. But yeah, they had the studio, which we're in right now. They had the student run studio, ATV. And they had so much other stuff that I could just get access to it immediately. And I was coming out of high school where I was shooting weddings on the side for, for fun. So I had a lot of camera experience.

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00:04:27:13 - 00:04:49:08

Isaiah

But like the other side of it, I just didn't have as much access to. So you were like, got the tour that just kind of jumped out at something like I really gravitated to. And so when I got in, I spent probably my first two years at the ATV studio just helping every show, editing every show, running a switchboard, running camera.

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00:04:49:08 - 00:04:59:16

Isaiah

I mean, I used to sleep in the studio. Yes, I would. I would edit all night, go to sleep in the studio, wake up in the morning, go to McDonald's, which I think is.

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00:04:59:18 - 00:05:00:05

Grace

Starbucks.

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00:05:00:05 - 00:05:22:07

Isaiah

Now. Yeah, yeah. And then go to class and then come back. But yeah, it was just like the hands on experience was just like, unparalleled. So by the time I got to an actual class, yeah, I could actually, like, rent gear from the, from the place I had already, like, had, you know, hours of real hands on work so that it was kind of like an easy class because of that.

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00:05:22:09 - 00:05:25:04

Grace

That's awesome. The McDonald's under the tunnel.

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00:05:25:06 - 00:05:25:13

Isaiah

Yeah.

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00:05:25:18 - 00:05:38:13

Grace

For anybody who doesn't know there was a McDonald's under the tunnel, That's where I’d go after swim practice. I love that. Okay. So diving into kind of segueing off that into the career. So how did you end up in kind of the post-production aspect of things?

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00:05:38:15 - 00:06:01:04

Isaiah

I knew that I did not hate editing where a lot of my fellow students, fellow classmates, if we were doing work projects or anything like that, did not like it. And I actually enjoyed it. And so I from those a time, any time I was on a group project, I was the editor. And so between my junior and senior year, my mom was like, You need an internship, You can't not have an internship.

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00:06:01:04 - 00:06:18:16

Isaiah

So she made me talk to the career counselors here at AU and it literally was like, I forget her name is she basically was like, This place looks fun. You should apply here. And I was like, All right. And it ended up being a small post house outside of Georgetown.

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00:06:18:18 - 00:06:19:03

Grace

Awesome.

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00:06:19:07 - 00:06:39:02

Isaiah

Called GTP. And all I did was shred papers and pick up lunches for the entire summer. That's all I did, like boxes of papers and then go get lunch orders. Occasionally answer a phone. And I didn't hate it. It was kind of a cool environment to be in. And I got to see, like, how spots were made and where they went.

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00:06:39:02 - 00:06:54:06

Isaiah

You know, it was all promo work and stuff like that. A lot of political work. And then when I graduated, I needed a job and that was the first place I went back to it. I was like, Hey remember me, I used to work here like a year ago. I need a job. And they hired me. Right on the spot.

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00:06:54:08 - 00:07:11:16

Isaiah

And so I just kind of like, came in the door as an E2. Kind of a production assistant and just did a little bit of everything and worked my way up and then one day found myself in the editing chair. Because I had all that experience. Through class and on the side it was like sink or swim, which is a lot of media.

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00:07:11:17 - 00:07:23:19

Isaiah

Yeah. You know, if you're ever in this business, a lot of times it's like, Can you do it? We'll find out. Ane they throw you in. And if you don't drown, they keep throwing more things at you. And I didn't drown, so I was able to keep going. That's you. That's how.

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00:07:23:21 - 00:07:24:18

Grace

Awesome.

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00:07:24:20 - 00:07:25:11

Isaiah

Became an editor.

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00:07:25:14 - 00:07:39:23

Grace

Yeah. And that's kind of leads me to my next question, which you might have answered just a little bit. But I love asking this question because a lot of what we try to do on this podcast is kind of bring people from all walks of life and then kind of just to give an insight into kind of what the path was to senior editor.

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00:07:39:23 - 00:07:48:20

Grace

Let's say if someone's like, that's my goal. I want to be in the editor's chair. What do you have any advice, any recommendation is based on your experience, on kind of how to get there.

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00:07:48:22 - 00:08:05:15

Isaiah

To get to the senior editor position? I think there's so many more avenues now than there were before, and there might even be like different versions of what a senior editor is. You know, like the a lot of the stuff I work for work on is for broadcast TV or the web, right? But then social media is a big thing.

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00:08:05:15 - 00:08:24:03

Isaiah

I know there are people who are cutting videos for Mr. Beast that are probably making good money, you know, So like, there's much more avenues now than there were back in the day. But you will probably start off as a as a grunt worker. As someone who is, you know, shredding paper and picking up orders.

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00:08:24:05 - 00:08:48:18

Isaiah

You know, and like getting those small details down because once people can trust you. Yeah, I know that you're paying attention and that you can follow steps. You know, you're not just, you know. Yeah. Wishy washy and you can show up. Like showing up is half the battle. You'll get opportunities to do other things. And if you've learned the software, whatever the software is, whatever the tools are if you, if you have it and you know it and you can get into it, more opportunities will get to you.

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00:08:48:18 - 00:09:06:05

Isaiah

And so you just got to start chopping away at that block and eventually someone won't show up for work. A client will ask for something different. Then your name will pop up and they'll give you a shot. And then that's your point to just dive right in. And go for it. And if you know, it's like, you know, it's like luck

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00:09:06:05 - 00:09:31:10

Isaiah

is just preparation, meeting opportunity. That's all it was. It's just like I had the years in it. The opportunity came. I was ready to go. I didn’t down. I could work my way up. So I worked at GTP for four years, kind of went from a junior editor to where I was, you know, pretty seasoned editor. I had my own clients that were coming to work with me directly, and I was either working one on the producers or one on one with like the client itself.

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00:09:31:13 - 00:09:54:03

Isaiah

People that didn't have any kind of media experience. And they were looking to me to kind of help guide them along the way. And then I went to a job fair. Which they sometimes work. Women in Film and Video, WFV. It was one of their job fairs back in the day. And that's where I'm at the company I'm at now, I gave them my resume in like four months later.

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00:09:54:03 - 00:10:12:01

Isaiah

They gave me a call and they came on board during a political cycle to cut ads for them. And I've been with them ever since. And so it's just like you kind of have to pick a lane. And be really good at one thing. And then push that. So yeah, I could shoot, you know, I can write now.

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00:10:12:01 - 00:10:29:22

Isaiah

You know, I could direct, I could produce you. But like, right now my bread and butter is as editing. And I still think that still applies to a lot of positions in a lot of things. In the industry. So you still got to have that one ace up your sleeve. You know that one thing you can do day in and day out and not get tired of it, you know.

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00:10:30:04 - 00:10:41:04

Grace

And that's really cool. So you said you had, you know, clients that come to work with you directly. So it's like once you start networking, even if you're working within a company, there could still be those like individual connections. That's very cool.

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00:10:41:05 - 00:10:57:04

Isaiah

Yeah, I mean, it's all about relationships. You know, and like, people are people at the day. And they want to work with people they like. So a lot of times, you know, they don't talk about it in class, but like, there's a lot of psychology in the room and being able to read people's temperament, understand what they're not saying.

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00:10:57:06 - 00:11:15:22

Isaiah

Or understanding what they're looking for and then be able to get there. For that or like make them look good to their client at the end of the day. And if you can do that and you can repeat that, they'll keep coming back to you because, you know, just like you want to go to somebody who knows your coffee order, right, when you walk in the door, they're already starting and they putting everything together.

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00:11:15:22 - 00:11:25:10

Isaiah

And here's your order. That's a good feeling. Your client wants that with you. And so, like, once you kind of build that rapport, people. It just works out really well.

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00:11:25:12 - 00:11:37:11

Grace

I think sometimes the misconception is that there's not a lot of interaction when you're an editor because they think you're just kind of like, in the room. So can you give, you know, shed light on the fact that you do kind of have to have that little back and forth like once a project starts?

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00:11:37:17 - 00:12:01:12

Isaiah

Yeah. So the difference would be like, you know, in a perfect scenario, you would think that you're going to get a script and here's the media now make it. And whatever you decide or cut is what's going to end up, you know, being shown. And that is not the case. There are clients, there are producers, and there are people who are paying for this to happen, and they all get a say and they all want to touch it in some form or fashion.

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00:12:01:17 - 00:12:20:11

Isaiah

So there's a lot of people management and work that you need to do. It's like you need to be committed to the thing you're working on, but not to. Not so much that you're just going to fight tooth and nail for all your creative decisions. But you got to be you kind of have to kind of be like a referee some time and be like, All right, I hear what you're saying, but this is why this wouldn't work.

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00:12:20:13 - 00:12:36:23

Isaiah

But let's see if we can make this work for you. You know, it's you're like problem solving and solutions like that. Before the pandemic, you had a client in the room with me almost every day. You're were working on a lot of stuff and then thanks to zoom and just work from home culture. That's kind of shifted since then.

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00:12:37:01 - 00:12:52:20

Isaiah

And there's less of that. It still happens every once in a while, but now it's more like through Zoom calls and through communication with teams, things like that, where you're kind of still having that day to day, but just not sitting behind you watching you Edit. Because they realize, oh, I could do multiple things and still get things done.

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00:12:52:22 - 00:13:11:11

Isaiah

People still come in every once in a while and you kind of have to build that rapport and like, you know, welcome people and show them around the office. Like get them settled. Show them where the coffee is, the bathroom is, we sit down, we talk about their project, we go over their media, we go over to the script, we go over what their end goal is, and then we start working toward that direction.

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00:13:11:14 - 00:13:36:20

Grace

What's the vision and how can we get there? Yeah, that's awesome. Speaking of the pandemic, I wanted to talk a little bit about the Bloomberg 2020 presidential campaign. Two question two part question there. I guess, one, how is it kind of being an editor in a political campaign environment only because we do talk a lot about DC on this podcast and our students are going out there and a lot of it is political, you know, politics-heavy work, I should say.

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00:13:36:22 - 00:13:45:12

Grace

And then two you know, kind of going into the pandemic at that time, what was that like? So I guess two part question, two loaded questions.

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00:13:45:12 - 00:14:02:17

Isaiah

Two part question. So being an editor or like I like the media guys, on a team, you're kind of at the end of a long rope, like a lot of decisions are being made and discussed and things are being shot. And by the time it gets to you, they just need it done. So a lot of times.

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00:14:02:22 - 00:14:22:11

Isaiah

Yeah, yeah I feel like, you know, I'm the racecar driver. That's driving the getaway car, you know, I'm like, trying to get to the end as fast as I can because it's. It's about output more than it is about anything else. And so, like, a lot of times I'm given, like, not even a script.

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00:14:22:11 - 00:14:39:14

Isaiah

I would say like, these are the lines that we want them to say, make it look good. And then you're just kind of working with your producer. Or building a rapport with your producer. They trust you to kind of, grab the media you need and move forward with that. And with Mike Bloomberg, you know, he's a small guy.

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00:14:39:15 - 00:14:49:14

Isaiah

You know, kind of low energy. So our goal was our goal was to make him look cool, big, and tough and fun. He's got the answers. So, you know.

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00:14:49:14 - 00:14:55:02

Grace

And he came into the election a little later than all the other. Right. And that's like a little different.

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00:14:55:02 - 00:15:15:21

Isaiah

He had missed most of the debates and everything. And so we kind of, I called it the Ford truck approach where I was just like, we're just going to hit him with like Ford truck music, Ford truck text. So you get a lot of Big Mike, like, and stuff like that. A lot of hitting and slapping,. Just kind of make him seem bigger than that, and fast cutting.

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00:15:15:21 - 00:15:35:10

Isaiah

So like my team kind of crafted that message, which became like his kind of standard throughout all his media stuff like that. And like, I never met the guy. Unfortunately, he never he came by the office. So I didn't see any of the shoots. The one time he was close by, I tried to go, but I was already working on other ads for him.

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00:15:35:10 - 00:15:51:13

Isaiah

So they were like, okay, don't worry about it. I got a button and a sign at the end of it. But yeah, so like, stuff like that, it's like you're, you're seeing and watching this person day in, day out for weeks and like, you're probably working six days a week. You know, like ten hour days.

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00:15:51:17 - 00:16:09:07

Isaiah

Just kind of cranking as much as you can. I'm talking like three or four spots a week and like, and that's just my room. And then like, you know, we had three editors on site and we had a couple other editors working remotely, and it was just like passing media back and forth and just new stuff's coming out every week.

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00:16:09:07 - 00:16:27:04

Isaiah

And then we have a system producer who's got a big calendar on the wall that's kind of tracking all the information of when spots need to go out, which spots to go to, testing and all that stuff. And so it's it does feel like like when you're at it, it's a slog and you're just going as fast as you can and trying not to put the wrong thing in the wrong place.

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00:16:27:06 - 00:16:33:02

Grace

And that's crazy too, was you never met him, but I'm sure you felt like you knew him. Going through all this stuff. It’s crazy.

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00:16:33:04 - 00:16:37:09

Isaiah

I'm sure if I saw him and like go to high five him he‘’d be like, What are you doing? Oh, yeah, that's right. You don't know who I am.

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00:16:37:09 - 00:16:46:19

Grace

You don't know who I am. But I know a lot about you. That's crazy. And then just anything to add, kind of transitioning into a pandemic at the time. Like a global pandemic.

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00:16:47:01 - 00:17:10:21

Isaiah

Yeah. So our office sent everybody home, and about five of us stayed behind, we're a company of 50 people. And so, like, because all our media is kept centralized at the office, like, if somebody needed something a file they couldn't get access to, We, you know, someone need to be able to get get there for that. And so it was one of the five that volunteered to stay behind, which was kind of cool to see the city.

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00:17:11:02 - 00:17:31:01

Isaiah

So I got the commute in while it like the city got boarded up. The riots there was protests. You know, like it it really became a ghost town at some point. And then it was like there were like three restaurants that were open, the whole thing. And so every week you went to all three to make sure that they were out there so that you could eat and you walk in, you're like, Hey, what's going on?

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00:17:31:01 - 00:17:46:12

Isaiah

You know? So like it was like different quiet space that once we kind of got out of things and people started coming back to work, we kind of went to a hybrid form. Then I started working from home because of that. But yeah, it was it was Ghost Town. So, so strange.

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00:17:46:12 - 00:18:05:11

Grace

Yeah, that's wild. And then I know you do some, like motion graphics work as well. How and this is kind of another we really pivoted here, but how do you see anything changing within the world of editing and motion graphics with just all the technology that's that's coming up today? Like, do you see it going anywhere? Do you have any predictions?

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00:18:05:14 - 00:18:23:22

Isaiah

I mean, when I graduated, I was editing stuff SD Standard DEF like everything. And then HD was the big cool thing. We got to get, you know, one terabyte drive cost $1,000. You know, like it was like a big deal to get that stuff. And now you can get five terabytes.

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00:18:24:03 - 00:18:24:17

Grace

For a like, for.

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00:18:24:17 - 00:18:43:09

Isaiah

For like 250. And it's like, it's insane. So like technology is always getting better and our equipment, it's always getting cheaper and it's like one of the few industries where that is actually happening. Well, I mean, like the the cell phone you have now, the camera on that was better than the camera. I could rent from AU, like 100%.

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00:18:43:10 - 00:19:04:12

Isaiah

And like, that's insane that everybody has one of those. And so, like, it's less more about like the the, the storytelling is change or anything like that. It's more like the tools you can use and the access to what you actually have. It's like insane. And it's it constantly expanding. I mean, you, I mean, you know, things I love TikTok.

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00:19:04:14 - 00:19:36:03

Isaiah

Actually, like editing on Tick Tock and like the idea that I could even do this. And it could be this complicated or look this good. And never have to leave my phone is is an insane thought. So like more of that's going to happen whether it's, you know, it's A.I. kind of going in and giving a base layer or something that you can then go in and manipulate or it's doing 3D space where you're working in it with the VR gear and you're you're adding in, you know, 3D space and, you know, I don't know where it could go, but just watching the last jumps to the last two decades, I've

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00:19:36:03 - 00:20:03:01

Isaiah

been out of school like it's it's insane to see the growth. And I can only imagine that it's going to keep accelerating. And so like while compositing skills are very good, very key, um, knowing rhythm and pacing is still very important. And having a basic understanding of how to get around a program is still key. Like, thankfully, if you forget something, there's a YouTube video, right?

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00:20:03:03 - 00:20:18:06

Isaiah

And it's like literally at your fingertips. And that's pretty common amongst most editors and, you know, graphic designers, so like that. But you know, everything but you if you can look it up, it's like you can get to the answer faster. So like knowing where the answers are, it's just as key.

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00:20:18:10 - 00:20:40:00

Grace

That's awesome and very true. Yeah. I kind of want to go into the creative process from here. So how are you kind of approaching storytelling in your projects, whether it's like a political campaign or a promo or commercial or whatever it may be? What are the key points that you think are important for you know, developing a narrative and kind of having that resonate with your audience?

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00:20:40:02 - 00:20:57:19

Isaiah

I'm always looking for simplest message and point of view. A lot of times when they interview someone who's going to be in an ad, they have a standard script that they kind of give them, and then they ask them questions about their life or things that they they're doing. A general like, how did this candidate help you achieve this?

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00:20:57:19 - 00:21:15:13

Isaiah

Or what were you struggling with? And that and simplicity is the best way to kind of get that match. You know, whatever, you know, you put as much in as you can, you chip away and keep removing stuff and if your story can still be told or the message can still be understood as you keep it moving.

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00:21:15:13 - 00:21:36:11

Isaiah

So if you keep going until it's like you're down to the to the, to the bare bones. And that's what people are going to resonate with the most. Because, you know, people are are covered in messaging all day long. And so, like we kind of not dumbed down the message, but simplify the message in that it's easy to absorb and easy to walk away with what you want them to have.

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00:21:36:11 - 00:21:54:02

Isaiah

And then like having an end goal is important. Knowing the feeling and emotion, you want people to you know, they want them to donate afterwards. Yeah. Do you want them to to be sad, happy, and then like, work backwards from there. But remember, your message needs to be simple. It can be about three five things. It needs to be about one thing.

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00:21:54:05 - 00:22:18:19

Isaiah

My horse was sick on my farm. I was able to get these bills paid and now my horse is better. Like. Like it's simple. And that's the best way I think. And so with storytelling. Like it it's the same thing. And like, whether you're doing a, you know, photo editorial or, you know, doing a podcast thing like that, like simplicity of story is still the same concept applied through all that.

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00:22:18:21 - 00:22:33:04

Grace

Okay, that's awesome. Actually, I really like that answer. And then I guess this kind of leads to the next question of any advice, just because we did say just a second ago about how sometimes there is a lot of like features you could use and, you know, Adobe now it's like.

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00:22:33:04 - 00:22:33:16

Isaiah

Oh yeah.

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00:22:33:19 - 00:22:53:06

Grace

Different things that you could try out and this. Do you have any advice for our students on how you can balance the creative with the technical? So like does that kind of apply to that same answer of like keep it as, as simple as possible? Because I think sometimes we focus a little too much on being fancy or using all of the, you know, all the like tools we can.

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00:22:53:06 - 00:23:01:08

Grace

But then also you want to balance it out with a simple message or something. So just any advice there on kind of balancing that creative with the technical?

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00:23:01:10 - 00:23:18:02

Isaiah

I think you should try all the plug ins and try all the effects. So so you know what they do. I mean, I think that's whenever I come across something new, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm going to add that to my Explorer. Yeah, my favorites folder. And I'm always going to sneak it in when I can. Yeah. So like, try it out.

��

00:23:18:04 - 00:23:39:12

Isaiah

I mean, this these tools are so powerful that you do a little bit of everything. And, you know, do more of what you love because it will, it will become a part of your style, right? You know, if you're the guy that cuts really fast and has big slashes and lens flares and everything feels like it's always in motion when people need that ad or need that kind of content, they're going to come to you for it.

��

00:23:39:12 - 00:23:56:18

Isaiah

But if you're like, I like long takes, you know, I like tight shots at faces, you know, And I like, you know, using off color and all my color correction. I just lean into it, you know, like pick a lane. Like I think it's good to try everything right and then stick with what you like.

��

00:23:56:18 - 00:24:00:19

Grace

Do you think you kind of develop a style of editing over time?

��

00:24:00:21 - 00:24:21:10

Isaiah

Yeah, because you can't remember everything. And so the stuff you remember tends to be the stuff that you like or something that you maybe have seen. Like if you're watching a lot of Bear, you're probably going to start cutting very weird. And not even realize you're doing it because you've been watching this type of editing style.

��

00:24:21:12 - 00:24:38:21

Isaiah

So like stuff like that kind of seeps into your style to whatever you're absorbing, which is why it's like, you know, you're always supposed to be learning or supposed to be growing and studying because it it doesn't stop here like it. It really doesn’t and it just keeps going. And there's just so much that you can't watch everything right?

��

00:24:38:23 - 00:24:47:01

Isaiah

And so the stuff that you like and you gravitate toward, the more you spend time with it and absorb it, it's it becomes a part of you. No matter what you do.

��

00:24:47:02 - 00:25:07:03

Grace

I feel like I haven't really found my style of it yet. As I'm thinking about that I don't like, I like cuts all over the place. And then just one last thing on kind of the editing aspect of things. It's obviously anything in media is so much collaboration and so much teamwork. So any advice there on how to just like foster a good environment, like a collaborative environment, a positive environment?

��

00:25:07:05 - 00:25:11:07

Grace

So I feel like it's a difficult sometimes and a lot of people have a lot of opinions inside.

��

00:25:11:07 - 00:25:14:00

Isaiah

Yeah, yeah.

��

00:25:14:02 - 00:25:35:14

Isaiah

The best thing is like leave ego at the door, you know, if everybody is working toward the same end goal or a good product, like even bad ideas can, you know, can help lead to good things. Like maybe the ideas are being suggested aren't the right but why are they being suggested? What are they actually trying to get at is are they do you need to change the pacing?

��

00:25:35:14 - 00:25:54:00

Isaiah

And that's not really you need to change music. You need to change pacing of the cut, like try to find the why for people suggestions, but the ego gets in the way that story stuff or people get like, Well, you're not taking my ideas. So I'm just not going to care anymore and kind of check out and now you're trying to accomplish something and your audio guy doesn't care.

��

00:25:54:05 - 00:26:09:11

Isaiah

Whether it's good or not because he's he's never going to use it. So as long as you like, keep that environment that we're all working together, we're all on the same team. We're all trying to accomplish the same goal like that. And it's not about, you know, me being better than you or you being better than me. We're just working as a team.

��

00:26:09:15 - 00:26:28:02

Isaiah

As long as you keep that spirit together because it is a team sport. You can't do this by yourself. It's really tough. Didn't that works out great. But I definitely think humility is a big deal. Open communication is a big deal. People can't read what you think. People can't read your mind, right? So you got to be able to express what you're thinking, what your vision is.

��

00:26:28:02 - 00:26:46:21

Isaiah

And so when you do find people that speak your language. That's always great and you should hold on to those relationships. But there are times that you'll find yourself in rooms where maybe you're not actually the smartest person. It may be just like, you know, swallowing that ego and just listening and absorbing. Is the best way to go about it.

��

00:26:46:21 - 00:27:02:19

Isaiah

And then there's places where, like, hey, maybe this is my time to kind of like, stand up and, you know, speak out, like, feel comfortable in that space too, to do that. But like, don't do in a way that it's like, I'm here. You should be listening to me, like make it like a part of the team work, you know?

��

00:27:02:21 - 00:27:27:00

Isaiah

I like my sets to be like if you got a good idea, say it out loud. I overshoot because I'm an editor, and so I'm shooting the edit, but I will do eight takes or something. Even after I get it. I will do a safety take. Because I want to have options in my edit suite, but I like it when it's like someone's like, What if she grabs it with her left hand and then throws the ball across the room and hits him in the face?

��

00:27:27:02 - 00:27:36:02

Isaiah

Yeah. Let's try. It's digital, right? We not, you know, we're not confined. Yeah. You know, by the physical space anymore. So let's, let's use it.

��

00:27:36:04 - 00:27:42:12

Grace

Yeah, that was all great. I totally agree with that as well. I feel like I never like to assume I'm the smartest one in the room. I don't know.

��

00:27:42:14 - 00:27:48:17

Isaiah

Oh, I've messed up if I'm the smartest person in the room. I'm in the wrong room.

��

00:27:48:19 - 00:28:01:07

Grace

One hundred percent. Okay, I want to get into the comedy. So what brought that on? I mean, was that like something you've always wanted to do or did you have experience prior to kind of going into the sketch comedy world.

��

00:28:01:10 - 00:28:26:04

Isaiah

What got, I got into comedy kind of in a backwards way. I'd taken most of the film classes here to use. I had taken a couple of screenwriting classes, so I had an understanding of how to write a script and how to write dialog and character and all that. And I was trying to figure out how to make my own cartoon series and like, how do I, how do I build that system or like, build that kind of a production?

��

00:28:26:06 - 00:28:44:01

Isaiah

And the animators I knew he was like, Well, what you really need using to write a script? And I was like, it's like the weakest of my skills is writing, which is why I'm a visual guy. You know, I could paint a picture, but I ask me to put a sentence together and it's a different story. And so I needed the practice.

��

00:28:44:03 - 00:29:05:02

Isaiah

And I had told a friend of mine she was like a first time director that I was like, I need to start making my own stuff. And that's step one is writing it. And she was like, Well, I go to this sketch jam that meets every fourth Sunday. You bring a script, actors will perform it on stage, and that way you get your stuff, you see your stuff, performed and hear the words out loud.

��

00:29:05:04 - 00:29:20:14

Isaiah

And so I went to one meeting and I was like, Oh, this is actually pretty cool. It's like, you know, everybody's very friendly. So it became like my deadline to is like I'd show up with a four page script, comedy script. I don't know if it's really funny, but it was like funny to me at the time and then watch actors perform it.

��

00:29:20:15 - 00:29:39:12

Isaiah

And that was a really great experience. And then when that group that was running that moved to Chicago, the a few of us that were left over that were attending were like, Let's form a sketch comedy team. And I was like, I still need to write. I still need that because I'm not great. And so I joined the team as a writer and took pictures of the show.

��

00:29:39:12 - 00:29:56:06

Isaiah

I didn't want to perform. I just wanted to write. And I, you know, and it just blossoming grew into this, you know, bad medicine comedy that is today. But that's just it was never the intention to go into comedy. Like, it's not like I enjoy it. I think it's funny, but it was never like the thing for me, you know.

��

00:29:56:08 - 00:30:07:19

Grace

How do you approach kind of like in that four weeks before, you know, you're like, I have a deadline? How do you kind of approach that? It's really the same as storytelling. Like what's, what's kind of the approach to the writing process?

��

00:30:07:21 - 00:30:37:13

Isaiah

My writing process is probably different from a lot of people. I consume a lot of media and so like, I'm always thinking of stuff and you should be writing down funny ideas. But a lot of times I'll go to like, you know, like a random sentence generator or premise generator and just like generate like 15, 20, 30 ideas and then like go through them, pick out my favorites and then try and come up with a premise or an idea around something that kind of fits that.

��

00:30:38:11 - 00:30:54:03

Isaiah

I kind of like the randomness where it like it takes my it keeps me from having to like, come up with the starting point. I can take something to be like, Ooh, that cup would be really funny if it had like, funny sayings on it. Like, what are the most what are some funny sayings? I could put out a couple like, be on a cup.

��

00:30:54:10 - 00:31:13:20

Isaiah

And then like, I could branch out from there. So like, I'm taking those as nuggets and planting them and then like, you know, taking the ideas that are the strongest or the easiest to write because they're, they're actually good. And then writing those full out. And sketch comedy, it's short storytelling. You know, there's a beginning, a middle, and there's three beats.

��

00:31:13:20 - 00:31:44:07

Isaiah

You take a joke or an idea and you escalate it to its peak. Yeah. There's a limited characters using one space dialogue needs to be simple so you can understand it. You know, somebody is going through an emotional change. They start happy and get mad or, you know, they are they start sad and get scared and like, so like there's a there's a structure to it that's very similar to screenwriting, which is, you know, you got tons and tons of tons of pages to do it, but now you've got like four, three to kind of set something up.

��

00:31:44:12 - 00:32:03:17

Isaiah

Explain what's the what's the end goal is you get to that. So for me, it's kind of like nugget idea. Kind of water it and see if I can make it bigger than that. And then once, once you get going in the groove. Like it it, you can get to the end yourself. I often a lot of times will write the whole sketch in an email.

��

00:32:04:15 - 00:32:20:03

Isaiah

And just so I'm not worried about formatting and all that, I'm just like, get it on paper, get on paper. And then once it's on paper and I feel good about it after I've read it, then I'll transfer it to a doc, a Google doc or something, and then go in and format it, make sure everything is right.

��

00:32:20:03 - 00:32:31:19

Isaiah

And I mean, Oh, it's too long. I need to lose a page. Oh, this looks weird. Like, okay, for the most part, it's like, get it down on paper. Flush it out and then, like, format it and then, well, I'll take that to the writers room from there.

��

00:32:31:19 - 00:32:38:13

Grace

That's awesome. And just on the name Bad Medicine, where did that come from? What was the inspiration behind that?

��

00:32:38:13 - 00:32:55:00

Isaiah

So we. So Jon Bon Jovi has a song called Bad Medicine. Which we had no idea about when we picked the name. So it's not based off of that. The whole idea is basically laughter's the best medicine, so we're bad medicine.

��

00:32:55:02 - 00:32:59:15

Grace

Okay, that's awesome. Like, simple, simple. I like it.

��

00:32:59:17 - 00:33:07:23

Isaiah

So many people are like you guys are Bon Jovi fans, right? I was like no idea. No idea.

��

00:33:07:23 - 00:33:16:22

Grace

That's awesome. So you guys are traveling, like, all across the country, Kind of major cities and doing these. Do you travel with the group, are you.

��

00:33:17:00 - 00:33:17:04

Isaiah

Yeah.

��

00:33:17:18 - 00:33:18:16

Grace

The writer as well.

��

00:33:18:18 - 00:33:38:12

Isaiah

We do. There's a festival circuit in America. Yeah a lot of major cities have a sketch comedy festival or a comedy festival where they invite out of town acts to come perform and there's like certain numbers of them throughout the year and we kind of tapped into that early on because DC unfortunately, does not have a lot of theatre spaces for indie comedy.

��

00:33:38:12 - 00:33:58:02

Isaiah

You know, it's a lot it now. DC is kind of like in standup town and a lot of standup lots of bars. You go to standup show every night. And there's a lot of improv shows and that what sketch needs needs a little bit more than both of those combined. And so like those spaces aren't always readily available or they cost a lot of money.

��

00:33:58:04 - 00:34:16:11

Isaiah

And so to get stage time to get those reps in, it was easier to, Hey, let's play this festival. That's in Seattle. We'll be there in September. We'll go see a bunch of sketch shows that we can and will get to perform. And so like we got to know different festivals that are really good and got to meet the people behind them.

��

00:34:16:13 - 00:34:33:16

Isaiah

And that kind of motivated us to like, have a deadline, prepare new stuff for it, and kind of rent, squash and repeat. And as we did that, we got better and better and stronger and stronger. They got easier to put shows together. And then the opportunity comes to find a place to call home that's local and produce shows there.

��

00:34:33:18 - 00:34:51:16

Isaiah

And now that we have the reps in, like it's something that we can kind of flip and change our focus from traveling to doing more local home shows. So was a time where like most of our shows are on the road. And now a majority of our shows are local here in D.C., but we're still doing road shows like maybe we'll be in Seattle.

��

00:34:51:18 - 00:34:52:08

Isaiah

In September.

��

00:34:52:08 - 00:34:57:00

Grace

Yeah, well, we got to get info on the next show in D.C. we'd love to come out.

��

00:34:57:00 - 00:34:59:12

Isaiah

Come out! It's a good time. It's a party.

��

00:34:59:14 - 00:35:04:23

Grace

We're going. We're going. Yeah. And Veronica is she

��

00:35:05:01 - 00:35:09:22

Isaiah

She's been to one of my shows, but she got seated in the front.

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00:35:10:00 - 00:35:20:06

Grace

I'm so sorry I did not put you there, but it was okay. I feel like you made it up. But two questions here as well in the comedy. So do you have a favorite sketch that you've written?

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00:35:20:11 - 00:35:44:09

Isaiah

I have a sketch that is it's about it's called Chef Crazy Joe, and it's the chef who is teaching people how to make hot chocolate. But it's how to make hot chocolate with a taser. And so the whole idea is that you bring an audience member on stage and you make them put an apron on and you have all the ingredients laid out.

��

00:35:44:17 - 00:36:01:04

Isaiah

And then you go you start to like, Oh, we're going to teach you how to make this the reveal that we're going to make it with. The Taser is the first time we ever did it. I couldn't find one that looked like a taser. So I grabbed like a tool from the closet. Yeah, that kind of looked like a taser, but it really didn't have the taser gun shape.

��

00:36:01:04 - 00:36:17:16

Isaiah

Yeah, well, the kid had no idea. The person we invite on stage had no idea it was fake. And they had just like immediate fear hit their face. So it was great. Great for like, the audience loved it. But like, I didn't find out until afterwards that they were like, Oh my God, this guy has a real taser on stage.

��

00:36:17:18 - 00:36:43:06

Isaiah

And so, like, it's the whole bit. And then like, you're watching me, like, wave the taser around.And then I start yelling at this imaginary raccoon becauses that’s Chef Crazy Joe. And then at some point, a real raccoon shows up with the bat and basically beats the crap out of the entire set. Threatens me because it turns out I have stolen the hot cocoa recipe from the racoon.

��

00:36:43:08 - 00:36:51:04

Isaiah

Yes. And the reason I have a Taser, because you're supposed to tase the raccoon. And that's what it’s for

��

00:36:51:04 - 00:36:56:08

Grace

And that’s what it’s for Chef Crazy. I love that. And do you bring people from the audience up a lot or is that like.

��

00:36:56:08 - 00:37:22:04

Isaiah

We try to do like, once or twice a show. It just the energy is electric. It adds a layer. We made them, we made two people wrap before wearing, like, different weird christmas gloves and stuff. Oven mitts. We made people battle with saxophones on stage, like you played a song. And then they had to, like, you know, mime that they were playing a saxophone.

��

00:37:22:04 - 00:37:31:20

Isaiah

And like, people got really into it and the winner got a chocolate cake. So like, yeah, it's like audience participation is great sketch. Like, you know, adds a layer.

��

00:37:31:22 - 00:37:50:04

Grace

And then just last question on this. What do you think comedy superpowers like, why do you think so many people are just drawn to like the comedy world? I know like everybody I've talked to in the last years, like I love going to watch comedy. Is there anything that after being around so many like audiences and, you know, crowds, if you could speak to that?

��

00:37:50:06 - 00:38:12:21

Isaiah

Yeah, comedy is interactive in a lot of ways. You know, the energy you give the comedian, the comedian kind of gives it back to you right as a conversation piece. Even if you're watching people and privacy and you're throwing a word at them stand ups, doing crowd work or sharing stories about their life, even storytelling, I would say, kind of pulls on that, that that give and take kind of relationship.

��

00:38:12:23 - 00:38:27:17

Isaiah

But also like life is hard, Life is a struggle and be able to sit down and kind of check out for an hour or so and just be like, all right, we're just going to laugh and have a good time, have a drink, you know, And I just giggle at being silly. I mean, that's one of the reasons that we love doing it so much.

��

00:38:27:17 - 00:38:51:02

Isaiah

It's like we you know, we're bad medicine, but still. And then the day, you know, for us, it is it is is a stress reliever. It's a good time. We get to like lean into that silliness that we may do a little bit at work, but right now I could just full blown, just be like, my wacky self on stage and dancing and hop around and high fived the audience and everybody's in on it with me.

��

00:38:51:02 - 00:39:03:01

Isaiah

And when you get that uproar of a laugh or you hit that home run and everybody is just like blown away or just in it together, like it's electric, it's insane. Like I could run through a wall after doing that.

��

00:39:03:02 - 00:39:17:01

Grace

I think it was Tiffany Haddish that said, just seeing people's mouths go up and seeing everyone's teeth is like electric in itself. Because you know that like once you see that people are just so happy and beaming, which is awesome. So you are performing too.

��

00:39:17:02 - 00:39:20:05

Isaiah

Yes. I’m performing now? But when I started I was like

��

00:39:20:06 - 00:39:20:16

Grace

Okay.

��

00:39:20:22 - 00:39:40:09

Isaiah

Do not put me on stage. I am not an actor. I'm the guy behind the camera. I will make your little we'll shoot sketches, videos, and I'll write and I’ll edit. I'll take pictures of the show. Don't put me on stage. And then people slowly figure it out that I could act or at least be entertaining on stage.

��

00:39:40:11 - 00:39:54:20

Isaiah

And they, like, slowly pushed me on. So now at the point now where it's like I've done it enough times that I'm actually comfortable on stage now. I'm having fun doing it. I still prefer to sit in the back, and be in the tech booth flicking lights and stuff like that, doing the techie stuff.

��

00:39:54:20 - 00:40:00:10

Isaiah

And that's my passion. But you know, I go on stage and and play a wacky character if you need me too.

��

00:40:00:10 - 00:40:07:13

Grace

That's awesome. And are you doing photography for anything else or is photography you just kind of came in through shooting these shows and stuff.

��

00:40:07:15 - 00:40:20:16

Isaiah

Before I got into comedy, I spent my twenties doing photography stuff. I was shooting flash photography, okay, and doing portraits and stuff. Yeah, it was like I got I was working for the yearbook.

��

00:40:20:17 - 00:40:21:23

Grace

Shooting weddings too.

��

00:40:22:01 - 00:40:34:03

Isaiah

I was shooting video for weddings. Shooting video for weddings. Then came to college and then got on the news newsletter. The yearbook? Got in the yearbook. So I get access to the camera.

��

00:40:34:03 - 00:40:35:20

Grace

That's awesome. Good for you.

��

00:40:36:01 - 00:40:55:08

Isaiah

I was doing yearbook stuff. Yeah, I was doing yearbook stuff, but also, it's like shooting stuff on the side. And then took all the photography classes and the. The development, the darkroom. Yeah. Doing all that. Like it took as many as I could. They would let me. I did all that, and I had a passion for it.

��

00:40:55:08 - 00:41:16:18

Isaiah

So when I graduated, I went and bought a camera and started shooting more stuff on the side. And there used to be an indie magazine called Laurie and Woman. That was back, back in the day. And I was doing all their flash photographer them and it was like, it's kind of like a lifestyle magazine, but like very to do it your do it yourself kind of style.

��

00:41:17:11 - 00:41:37:01

Isaiah

I did like the covers, the spread and all that. It was a lot fun. It was, it was, it was a lot of good. And then the pandemic kind of like really put a lot of stopp to the photography stuff. So a lot of my photography clients moved or stopped doing or needing it. I do it every once in a while I still have all the equipment but it's it's not as it's not consistent as it once was.

��

00:41:37:01 - 00:41:37:11

Grace

Yeah, right.

��

00:41:37:17 - 00:41:43:03

Grace

That's awesome. Photography is fun. I feel like commercial photography too, like fashion photography and all that is a lot of fun because.

��

00:41:43:03 - 00:41:52:17

Isaiah

Because you can play music while you work. Whereas you filming stuff and I need quiet on the set, but like I can crank off to the reggae music lights going, but it’s chill.

��

00:41:52:22 - 00:42:05:22

Grace

I feel like your subject feels more comfortable than like the silence too, like action. Then they’re like okay. It's my turn. That's awesome. Anything exciting you're doing now? Any projects they want to talk about or anything cool going on?

��

00:42:05:22 - 00:42:25:15

Isaiah

Yeah. So my one of my main mission is to grow the sketch comedy scene in DC. And right now I would say we're either entering or end the golden era of sketch comedy in DC. When we started our troupe, we were like one of five. And we're pushing, getting close to 15 sketch teams in DC.

��

00:42:25:16 - 00:42:47:12

Isaiah

Different groups of people. People are doing improv form their own team, there are students who form teams. So we're teaching and doing classes at DC Improv. But there's a bigger sketch comedy scene that we're very active in and supporting and like, so my goal is to create more space, you know, no gatekeeping, create more space opportunities for other people and then support them.

��

00:42:47:14 - 00:43:03:07

Isaiah

And that has really helped that kind of scene grow where people are excited to come here and participate. And we have out of town teams that are traveling here that a good time. We just had DC Sketch Fest. Yeah, back in March, which is amazing. We had 18 teams coming in from out of town.

��

00:43:03:08 - 00:43:04:06

Grace

Where was that? Where do you guys.

��

00:43:04:06 - 00:43:23:15

Isaiah

We did shows at the DC AC in Adams Morgan and at the DC Improv and it was a blast, it was, it was four days of sketch comedy. Just, you know, we got some good press coverage about it. And all the shows sold out. We had teams from Seattle, we had teams from New York and Toronto.

��

00:43:23:17 - 00:43:45:21

Isaiah

So we're just looking to expand it and go even bigger and better and have even more DC teams participate. So like, just as the scene grows and as it gets bigger, I think that's going to open doors for a lot of people and creates new opportunities. And we're kind of in an era where you don't have to be in New York or L.A. to, to kind of like make content, find media and build off of that.

��

00:43:46:08 - 00:44:02:23

Isaiah

And so I feel like we're on the path for something or someone to kind of hit it off and kind of be it. And yeah, we've got our our standup celebrities and we got a couple people from the improv scene that have hit it big as well. I think it's time for someone from the sketch scene to get up there and kind of put us on the map.

��

00:44:03:04 - 00:44:20:09

Grace

Me too. I feel like comedy's evolving in itself in its own little realm because I feel like with TikTok and social media and like you just have so many ways to create comedy, it's not so much like standing on a stage with me talking to a crowd anymore, you know, which I love and I appreciate. That's awesome. Did I hear you say you, you give some classes at D.C. Improv?

��

00:44:20:09 - 00:44:27:00

Isaiah

Yeah, we teach. We teach sketch classes at DC Improv. Yeah. Yeah. We’re the sketch comedy arm of the DC Improv.

��

00:44:27:02 - 00:44:28:01

Grace

Oh okay. That's awesome.

��

00:44:28:04 - 00:44:35:09

Isaiah

It came on right before the pandemic started and then taught classes online. Throughout. And then once they reopened, we came back and started doing shows as well.

��

00:44:35:10 - 00:44:40:12

Grace

So I feel like it's popped up in my email. Because I still get the DC in my email that it's.

��

00:44:40:12 - 00:44:41:13

Isaiah

We’re trying.

��

00:44:41:13 - 00:45:06:11

Grace

Sounding really familiar. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, definitely have to make it out to a show for sure. So one last advice I or one last one last question I like to ask our guest is can you just give our students any piece of advice? It could be multiple pieces of advice, but kind of looking at where you started when you were going to school and where you're at now, just an any and it could be like life advice I have here, you know, in post-production or comedy or this.

��

00:45:06:11 - 00:45:11:13

Grace

But it can also be in like a general sense. Yeah. Anything you have to say to these kids?

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00:45:13:01 - 00:45:35:14

Isaiah

Yes, I think I have to. It's something I'm trying to teach myself and try to remember myself. It's like life is what you make of it. Like you can't wait for other people to kind of give you things or doors to open. You kind of have to just build it yourself. And one the process of building it yourself, other things will happen, good things will happen.

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00:45:35:14 - 00:45:57:05

Isaiah

You will attract that kind of energy and stuff. Like I didn't get into sketch comedy to start a sketch comedy festival and to have all these new friends as an adult. And kind of have my world grow and spend my nights laughing with some of the funniest people I've ever met. Like that. It's not something that was a goal of mine.

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00:45:57:07 - 00:46:17:19

Isaiah

But once I once I started building that world and leaning into it and committing time to it, like the other stuff grew and blossom. And now the tree is bearing fruit. And that idea that it only exists because instead of me being like, Hey, let me into your sketch comedy club, let me be a part of this like, I, I built it.

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00:46:18:07 - 00:46:38:20

Isaiah

And now that exists that that's something that’s the shade of the tree I get to live under. And I think that applies to whatever you want to do, whether if you want to get into podcasting, broadcast journalism, even if you want to make your own films, indie films, TV shows, whatever, it's like just go do it, make it yourself, Make those connections, go out the door, network and network.

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00:46:38:20 - 00:46:59:17

Isaiah

Connect. Connect with people. Build relationships. Because that's really what it is. That's what it is. It's just connecting with people. Remember their birthdays remember where live like. Like just just let people know that you do care about them, that they're just not not just a stepping. Like it actually means something to you and build your life that you want.

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00:46:59:17 - 00:47:25:12

Isaiah

You know, if you want to work from home. 9 to 5, move somewhere. Do what you got to do to make it happen. Like, it's not going to just be given to you. Like you can build it. And like, that reality of like, you think you want it sometimes coming out of education, like you're, you're trained to follow grade one to grade to grade three, and then you do this and then someone tells you do that and like, then you get out and you're kind of like, Oh, what do I what do I do now?

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00:47:25:17 - 00:47:33:18

Isaiah

Do I go to grad school? Do I go get married, or should I go join Greenpeace? Like, you know, it's like there's just it's just so open ended.

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00:47:33:18 - 00:47:34:23

Grace

You’re speaking to me now.

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00:47:34:23 - 00:47:42:22

Isaiah

It's so open ended. And. But it's whatever you make of it. There's no wrong answers. You just build it, right.

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00:47:43:02 - 00:47:51:23

Grace

I like that. It plant the tree and then that's the shade that you're standing under. That's like, so perfect. That's awesome. Isaiah, thank you so much for being here.

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00:47:51:23 - 00:47:52:02

Isaiah

Thank you so much Grace.

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00:47:52:04 - 00:48:05:23

Grace

This was so fun. We'd love to have you back whenever. As double SOC alum over here. Thank you for tuning in to Media in the Mix. If you'd like to donate to SOC, go to giving dot American dot edu and we will see you on the next episode.

COMING SOON!!